Comments on: Carless Takes Fire

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:36:47 +0000

About 10 years ago, my car was hit by someone and damaged beyond repair. I got some money out of the insurance settlement, but instead of buying another car, I took a break and went without. At the time, I thought I’d do this for a month or two, but it was 18 months before I bought another.I remember this as a time of great liberation and only occasional incovenience. It was when I developed a love for taking the bus and walking everywhere. My girlfriend at the time, however, remembers a lot of “mooching” (using her car for every trip we took together). We’re married now, so I guess it didn’t harm our relationship very much.We have two cars now, and two kids to fill them. The old Honda is showing signs of wear, and in anticipation of its demise, I’m gradually starting to talk with my wife about not replacing it. Since I leave the home to work, this will mean that I won’t ever have a car to take to work, and will undoubtedly cause some additional inconvenenience. I’m o.k. with this, and I hope I can convince my wife.

By: Seth Zuckerman

Seth Zuckerman — Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:11:43 +0000

Clearly, the Durnings' actions need no further support (especially after Gary and Kathryn's spirited defenses), but I thought it might enrich the discussion to consider two other reference points that come to mind regarding the behavior that Mossback characterizes as mooching.In the SF Bay Area, commuters self-organized "casual carpooling" stops, where people with space in their cars pick up fellow commuters and give them a ride over the Bay Bridge. The drivers save the toll and get to use the carpool lanes, so there is an instant mutual benefit, even apart from karma points. Eventually, someone (possibly Environmental Defense) set up a casual carpool station in SF, so people could gather by destination to receive offers of rides back to Oakland, Berkeley, etc. Is this mooching? And would Mossback have a quarrel with it?The whole debate reminds me of the situation in Cuba, where drivers (not sure whether only gov't vehicles or all vehicles) are expected to stop to take on passengers if they have room. Yellow-uniformed attendants flag down passing vehicles, find out where they're going, and communicate that information to waiting riders. This system arose in the face of an extreme scarcity of fossil fuels (brought on by the abrupt end of Soviet subsidies). It's something people do when they make it a priority to save fossil fuels.

By: Kathryn

Kathryn — Mon, 12 Jun 2006 00:39:08 +0000

Hi everybody! I’m Alan’s daughter (i’m in 6th grade)and i just read the article that that man wrote. Knute? well in my opinion, he has a right to say what he wants about my family and my daddy. (although it did hurt my feelings.) it’s just that i don’t think he HAS much of a story from his perspective. (Reading what all of these people have wrote, it seems like they’re all on “The Durnings” side when it comes to “mooching”.) I don’t understand what’s so bad about mooching off of other people. We all do it. We never said we were against riding in cars we just don’t own one. And despite what Knute might think, IT’S NOT THAT BAD! seriously, having no car isn’t that bad. We get along pretty much the same as we did before we didn’t have a car. We aren’t different people because we don’t have a car. Oh well. I have one more thing to say that personally didn’t sit well with me. “Totaled a car” sounds recless and like a stupid teenager crashing down the street. Gary is one of the most careful drivers I know. I don’t think Knute portrayed Gary well at all. How the car was crashed is kind of a long story, but it could have happened to anyone. That is all. “Respect” father, respect.

By: stacey

stacey — Sat, 10 Jun 2006 01:11:53 +0000

I’m one of Seattle’s carless contingent and should admit that sometimes I do feel like moocher. Not very often, because the rides I catch with others are often “on the way” and warmly offered. And I regularly—especially when friends or siblings take me somewhere far away, like my mom’s house on Camano Island or on a hike—pony up gas money and then some. Another carless friend and I recently treated a friend to a meal for her willingness to be the designated driver on all of our excursions.It has crossed my mind from time-to-time, though, that maybe someday I should get my own vehicle and pay some sort of “car-mic” retribution by giving people lifts. I don’t know. Is it an issue of fairness? What would I do if I decided NOT to ask friends for rides? How would I visit Mom? What if none of my friends had cars?In an age marked by dwindling oil supplies, rising energy prices, and the specter of climate change, it’s unfortunate that our communities are designed in such a way that these questions don’t have easy answers.

By: Alan Durning

Alan Durning — Fri, 09 Jun 2006 00:54:39 +0000

Gary Durning, I’ll talk to you at home about remembering your manners. ; )Michael, my apologies. I had some of the Stranger blog comments in mind when I chose the word “bile.”Kberger and David Sucher—more later. This mooching/reciprocity theme is ripe for a more-thoughtful treatment. But I’ve got a bus to catch.

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 09 Jun 2006 00:00:54 +0000

Sorry to nitpick, Alan, but I prefer to think of my Seattlest post as spleen—the Stranger does bile. That’s our differentiator. Anyway, I think we can all agree we’re following the car-less story with interest.

By: David Sucher

David Sucher — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 23:59:25 +0000

… fairly well-understood that getting rides (for those without a car) or receiving other on-going favors carries some sort of implcit reciprocal obligation. You are going to do something nice for the other guy at some point. So it’s not mooching. It may not be stated, but the poor old retiree who lives down the road and who you might take to the distant store for groceries once a week, will do his damnedest to do something for you within his capabilities. That’s not mooching at all. And in the case of the Durnings, I can’t imagine that there wouldn’t be something which would come up over the course of the year which would act as a return favor. (I hate to be personalizing this but I guess we are talking about the lives of specific people.)Knute, I’ve read your post over several times—and hey! I’m a “car-guy” and can’t really personally imagine living without one, so I don’t have a dog in this fight—and while I could see that you find the issue compelling, I still couldn’t quite get your take. Is it at base that you are more wistful than anything else?

By: David Sucher

David Sucher — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 23:47:50 +0000

” I am not anti-bike, anti-Flexcar, anti-walking, anti-bus or, though you might not believe it if you read some blogs, anti-puppies and kittens.”Could’ve fooled me, Knute. Actually, I couldn’t quite figure out where you were coming from. Your characterization of “mooching” was rather harsh as the term is definitely one of derison and contempt. And not really accurate as I think it is fairly well-understood that

By: hoffrau

hoffrau — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 23:43:37 +0000

The other day, as I left work, I realized that I was really looking forward to my hour-long commute home. That might sound odd, and I certainly didn’t feel that way before I began bike-commuting. Getting in a car for a half-hour drive to Bothell from Seattle? A waste of time that made me tense and cranky. Now, I either bus or bike. Busing is better than driving—I can sleep, people-watch, etc.—but the bike commute I actually ENJOY. My commute changes from a way to get from here to there into a time for contemplation and enjoyment of the world around me.Does it take more time than driving? Yes, but I’m still a happier, more relaxed person. Bike-commuting makes it easier for me to keep up with my goal of staying in shape, and increases my sense of place. I don’t feel like I’ve “lost” and extra hour of my life when I commute by bike; I feel like I’ve regained the hour I used to spend commuting by car. Lots of money is being spent on finding ways to fight the epidemics of obesity and depression that are sweeping through the U.S.: commuting by bike and bus can help with both problems.As for mooching, I’d be happy if more of my friends mooched off of me for car time. My husband and I own a truck (like Finish, I’m pro-alternative transportation but not anti-car), but we use it rarely. As Gary and Elisa point out, what Knute calls mooching can be experienced as sharing the wealth, cementing the bonds of friendship and community.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 22:18:26 +0000

Alan is being a gentleman, and he also seems to have taken my main point, which is the issue of time. I am not anti-bike, anti-Flexcar, anti-walking, anti-bus or, though you might not believe it if you read some blogs, anti-puppies and kittens. I am a four-day-per-week bus commuter myself. Do I think that’s a lifestyle others should emulate? No, because everyone has their own tough choices to make about how to survive, live well, raise their kids, etc. (see Sightline’s own Clark Williams-Derry’s April 26th post about why he and his family weren’t ready to give up ar commuting). I do think that much of the resistance to making changes in our lives has to do with the way our economy has turned time into a precious commodity, something most of us feel is scarce. As to mooching, I raised that because I think if you’re looking at being “car-less,” or perhaps more accurately on a “car diet,” the free rides should be part of the equation, just as Alan totes up the costs of gas, insurance, cabs, bus fare, and Flexcar use. I’m not sure there is such a thing as a free ride in the context Alan’s experiment. Someone is burning fossil fuel to get family members here and there. Perhaps recognize some percentage of that cost in the ledger. It wouldn’t be a point to raise if the carpooling was reciprocal because with shared driving, the costs would cancel out. I look forward to reading the Durnings’ installment about the pressures and stigmas of not having one’s own car. I think the social aspects of this experiment are the most interesting part.